A TOS Diagram

[Hito]

Thanks for all the nice welcomebacks in the yorktown thread :)

I've had a little free time lately, so thought i'd have a go at making a diagram of the original Enterprise.

http://www.darkervisions.com/betaz/1701saucer3.jpg

I am using adobe illustrator and refrence material from this site (http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/wizardofflight/)

[Hito]

Also...
I'd like to use the vectors i come up with doing this project as the basis of my next attempt at the constitution class in MAX.

However whenever i import paths into MAX from adobe i get strange results.
Does anyone know of a better AI to MAX importer.

[Thomas P]

I've never tried to do that (not having AI has much to do with it). At the moment your link is dead so I cannot see how you are coming along.

[Hito]

Yeah,
My service provider is having issues today :/

[Thomas P]

Okay - see it now :D

Very good - great improvement over the one Alan has done. I prefer the smooth lines.

[Masao]

I'm need to do a four-view schematics based on the Sinclair blueprints as well. My schematics are based on those in Ships of the Starfleet.

[skyhawk223]

Looks pretty decent so far. Are you going to do all the angles?

[Hito]

Skyhawk:
Yeah i am going to try to finish all the views.
front/back and top/bottom should be no problem since they share so many bits in common.

Masao:
Do you know how accurate wizardofflight's nacell placements are?
I dug out the instruction sheet for the modle kit and they show the nacells a bit higher.

[Masao]

I don't know, Hito. Supposedly Sinclair's (Wizard of Flight's) schematics are the most accurate available, but I'm not sure upon what that statement is based. Supposedly the schems are based on actual measurements off the miniature. But, model kits aren't guaranteed to be accurate either, of course.

[Thomas P]

Yeah, models are seldom accurate and definitely not when you are talking AMT / ERTL or early Monogram.

[Hito]

Added the bussard caps.
http://www.darkervisions.com/betaz/1701saucer4.jpg

[Hito]

itdosent look like to big an update but a lot of the work has been done behind the nacell.

http://www.darkervisions.com/betaz/1701saucer4a.jpg

Hey does anyone know what the 3 round bits on the front of the saucer are supposed to be?

[Thomas P]

I've wondered if it was what has become 10-forward :D Seem too big to be standard view ports. We never saw much in the way of a general rec room on TOS. I bet Masao may have a better idea.

[Masao]

Me? I have no idea. I've never put similar structures on my pre-TOS ships, so I probably didn't even notice them until fairly recently. I don't think they're windows, though. Some sort of sensor, I imagine.

[skyhawk223]

Deflector detail is coming along.

I always thought they were windows although they never seemed to be lit.

[Hito]

just a few more viewports and a little work on the engineering hull & navells and the front will be done
http://www.darkervisions.com/betaz/1701saucer5.jpg

[Masao]

By the way, I emailed Alan Sinclair late last week. He sent me some editable EPS files of his schematics, but they were so large (around 4 MB), that my drawing program couldn't handle them. He's now breaking the schematics into separate views. I'll share them with you, Hito (and whoever else wants them), when I get them.

FYI: This thread at Hobby Talk is about how his schematics came about. Very interesting reading. http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5620

[Masao]

Hito: I emailed you an eps from Alan Sinclair of the side view of his Enterprise schematic. I couldn't get it to open. If anyone else wants to take a crack at it, tell me here (and include your address) or by mail.

[Hito]

I got it.
The AI is on it's way back.

They are really good quality vectors.
I wonder why the ones he has posted are so jaggy?

[Hito]

About totaly done in the front
http://www.darkervisions.com/betaz/1701saucer6.jpg

and a sneak peak at the back

http://www.darkervisions.com/betaz/1701saucer6a.jpg

[Masao]

Yeah, I don't know why they're so jaggy. A combination of line thickness, low rez, and file size I guess. Or maybe that's how the CAD program outputs.

Your schematics look good, Hito. The only nit I can pic is that base of the ventral planetary sensor might look a bit square. Also, are you going to draw the big registry numbers (which separates the pros from the pikers)?

[Hito]

i've been wondering that myself :D
it would be easy to do in a top view but i cant imagine doing it from the front of the side.

Unless i build a mock up in 3d and render it from the front and side then trace it.

[Thomas P]

Umm... I don't mean to sound ignorant but...

Are the view ports supposed to be symetrical or not? Your image has a different count of openings left versus right sides (port / starboard). I honestly don't know and just assume they were.

[Hito]

i wasnt too sure about that myself so i just left them as they were on the diagrams.
I prefer symetrical so i may just go ahead and copy them over

[Masao]

Whether you draw the registry on the side and front views depends on what the schematics are for. If you're only drawing them as a guide for 3-D modeling, then drawing the registry is not necessary. However, if the the schematics are the final product and you're drawing the registry on the top view, then I think you should draw the registry on all views. I always draw them, even if they're not 100% exact, for the sake of completeness.

I'm sure the Green Lantern wouldn't wuss out.

[Thomas P]

I like the asymetric look, it seems more natural that the ship would not have mirrored room layouts. But, maybe the outer areas are for crew and such so they would have. However, they look great so far.

[skyhawk223]

I can't imagine trying to draw the registry from the two posted angles, but my vote is to try it.

[Masao]

I figured out why the gifs are so jaggy. It's to cover up inaccuracy! I'm disassembling the Illustrator file of Sinclair's side view and find that many of the line segments don't line up. This wouldn't be visible if the lines are 1 point thick (0.3 mm) or thicker but is very obvious when you use thin lines and zoom in close. I suspect that Sinclair drew with lines that were thicker than his degree of error. The schematic is also drawn entirely with short line segments rather than as layered solid objects. I think than rather than trying to connect up all the line segments from the Illustrator file into objects, I'm just going to use his lines as a guide for drawing my own objects.

To draw registries, you need to map out their locations on the hull with rectangles, which curve and are foreshortened accordingly. It's hard work, but worth it, I think.

[Hito]

I have updated the last two images I posted.
The nacell on the left side was slightly askew so i fixed it, and i also rounded the planetary sensor dome per OzakiSama's observation that it was too square.

http://www.darkervisions.com/betaz/1701saucer6.jpg

and tweaked the aft view sneak peak a bit.
http://www.darkervisions.com/betaz/1701saucer6a.jpg

[Hito]

Originally posted by Masao
I figured out why the gifs are so jaggy. It's to cover up inaccuracy! I'm disassembling the Illustrator file of Sinclair's side view and find that many of the line segments don't line up. This wouldn't be visible if the lines are 1 point thick (0.3 mm) or thicker but is very obvious when you use thin lines and zoom in close. I suspect that Sinclair drew with lines that were thicker than his degree of error. The schematic is also drawn entirely with short line segments rather than as layered solid objects. I think than rather than trying to connect up all the line segments from the Illustrator file into objects, I'm just going to use his lines as a guide for drawing my own objects.

To draw registries, you need to map out their locations on the hull with rectangles, which curve and are foreshortened accordingly. It's hard work, but worth it, I think.
I noticed that as well when i was breaking them apart.
They look a lot beter when u increse the line weight.

[Masao]

Originally posted by Hito
i also rounded the planetary sensor dome per OzakiSama's observation that it was too square.

Looks the same to me. I meant the mounting for the small dome on the bottom of the ship looked a bit square.

[Hito]

woa
yeah thats what i rounded.
A lot in fact.

[Hito]

I was looking aat the sinclare diagram vectors again.
I tink the inavuricies are due to conversion from whatever program he is using to AI.

Because some of the things that are clearly circular on the diagrams are unrecognixable on the vectors.

[Masao]

He works in AutoCAD or something. He says he can also output in DWG, DXF, and something called Drawing Web format. Freehand can supposedly convert DXF files, but I suspect it will still choke on it. Anyways, I think I'm just going to use his schematics as a template. My schematics are already pretty good, but just need a bit of tweaking here and there.

[Masao]

Re: Window symmetry. I was looking around and noticed that photos of the 11-foot model also show assymmetrical windows: http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/STEnterprise/ent59.jpg and http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/STEnterprise/ent03.jpg
Might it have something to do with that being the undetailed side?

This page also has a lot of good detail shots of Enterprise. (for example, the lower sensor dome: http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/STEnterprise/ent11.jpg)