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Old September 8th, 2001, 03:46 PM   #1
chrono
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Default Supe's and where is he going!

I've been following the current "Worlds at War" storyline and have to admit I like the way they are handling Supe's.

He's back up to his "can move planets" strength level and he's 'evovled' into a different state.

[VERY cool]

But even cooler is what they did in Superman issue 174. It really brings the 'potentiality' of his "Kingdom Come" future.

I really hope they start to do some of the things 'hinted' at in the old story arc of DC 1,000,000.
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Old September 8th, 2001, 05:50 PM   #2
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Y'know, I was disappointed that they suddenly doubled back from the "electric" Superman. I was interested to see how his powers would mutate. Just from what I saw, he developed some interesting vulnerabilities that were a lil easier to take advantage of, like Clark Kent being totally human.

I liked that.
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Old September 8th, 2001, 07:27 PM   #3
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Yeah I would've liked to see them explore that facet a little more, but I think people REALLY REALLY didn't like him that way. A pity really. I was very interested in the fact that he had some control over dimensional energy's. That really could've opened up alot of storylines.

I'm still trying to figure out Supe's relationship with Kismit though. Why is she seemingly protecting him? Is she supposed to be a 'future' love interest? Like many of the 'Otherworld' books show Wonder Women as.

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Old September 8th, 2001, 09:35 PM   #4
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That's the problem with the general comic book crowd. There's a bunch of purists who can't really stand anything new. I remember when they tried to introduce Azrael as the new Batman. They got so much mail about Bruce Wayne, they changed the end of Knightfall into a match between the new and old Bats. Same with the Green Lantern. Kyle Wagner only got respect as the new guy in the last year. Especially when they wrote Hal Jordan into a new role as the Spectre.
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Old September 8th, 2001, 11:33 PM   #5
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Bah...superman should be the last Kryptonian. Not a lightning bolt

Changing him like that is up there with Disney's improved Hercules!
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Old September 9th, 2001, 10:00 AM   #6
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Geh. Shows what you know. He wasn't a lightning bolt. That was just one facet of his powers.
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Old September 9th, 2001, 02:51 PM   #7
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It was a joke! shesh!

I thought it a fairly good direction to take the character in. It really helped to point out the results of him being an alien from another planet. Normal things for us aren't normal for him.

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Old September 9th, 2001, 03:52 PM   #8
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Nope. He's serious. I talked to him about it last night. That wasn't a bluff. He thought Superman was just electricity in that form.
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Old September 9th, 2001, 04:10 PM   #9
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Nooo.... I knew he had mutated into a different thiing. And his powers had changed. I was being sarcastic with the lightening bit.

I didn't like the idea. So I avoided the comic duriing that.

Actually I dropped out after they killed him and brought him back. That sorta was a big semihoax to get money at the cost of true story writing. The death and especially the rebirth of Superman was reaallly lame.

And Jer- You are not really a fair judge of superman. You don't like him to begiin with, and the only way you would like him is if he became something NOT superman.
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Old September 9th, 2001, 06:21 PM   #10
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lol I knew that'd draw you out...

To me, Superman was never "super". I mean, how can you really be a "super-man" when you don't have any real weaknesses except for your mind.

The new Superman had a host of weaknesses that was easier to take advantage of and would cause a whole host of situations that would be life threatening.

I thought that was way cool.
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Old September 9th, 2001, 06:44 PM   #11
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DAMN MOUSE!

*looks up to see the anvil balancing on the top of the door.....*
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Old September 9th, 2001, 06:50 PM   #12
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I think Superman is a great concept character. People love the idea of him.

Unfortunately after 70 or so years, a ton of stories and a change of culture...he's a hard character to write for. And most storylines fall short.

It takes a superior writer to do a good superman story.

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Old September 10th, 2001, 11:09 AM   #13
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*responds to anvil with a frying-pan shot*

CLAAANG

Not a whole lot of great writers left. Hell, we're lucky Claremont came back from his book series to write for Marvel again.
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Old September 14th, 2001, 11:29 PM   #14
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It's true there aren't a whole lot of good writer's left, but Claremont is not a god. It is an arguable point that a lot of what is wrong with comics today started with Claremont.
I don't think Superman in any of his many incarnations is hard to write. The problem has always been the people buying comics. A lot of people mistakenly believe that Frank Miller was the first to depict heroes with "clay feet" but it really started when Marvel began penning stories of average men becoming super-men. Classic superheroes were (and to me still are) metaphors of their times. Comic superheroes began as beings who overcame incredibly harsh circumstance and drew from that to become forces of good. Nowadays it's always 'me-me-me' with these heroes.

Look, Superman began as an escape from the harsh realities currently facing the people of the time. As America became a stronger nation, subconsciously, people began to succumb to the pressures of being citizens of a world super power. Comic readers moved away from heroes like Superman because they couldn't escape from those pressures (responsibilities) through him, but could definitely get into Watchmen/Dark Knight/Wolverine because they're greatest enemies were generally thier own faults. These faults generally being their sole motivation for lashing out against others around them with usually only some cliche circumstance putting them on 'the side of good'.

Now, we are seeing todays comic protagonists basically being designed as a collection of faults.

Oh, and I never really bought the idea that people don't feel Superman is approachable becuase of his powers. Anybody picking up a comic book solely to check out the breadth and depth of a characters powers wouldn't be in it for the long haul anyway and comics wouldn't have thrived if that was all people looked for either. Anybody familiar with writing knows the only way to hook a reader is to make the reader relate to the character and in comics more than any other medium that has a lot to do with what the character stands for.

In order to make an imaginary character appear real in our mind, we have to put a little bit of our own personality into the hero. If the writer successfully communicates the hero's motivation, our subconscious will attempt to match our own sensibilities to them and reject or accept them based on how close they match. Works kinda like hypnosis So IMO if a person doesn't like Supes, they don't like what he stands for. His powers, and thier range, are irrelevant.

As far as Supes' current direction, I think DC could do better by having him stop straddling both sides of the fence and either stick to 'truth, justice and the American way' or find him a new angle so he can be more consistent.
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Old September 14th, 2001, 11:37 PM   #15
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A character's weaknesses are extremely important, because without them, there is no palpable growth. That's a basic element of any story. Be it a lack of will, a circumvented power, or a lack of training, growth only comes by being presented with hurdles that test their abilities to the fullest.

Superman is amazingly inconsistent, that the definition of his maximum power seems to flux depending on the current story. And I don't mean life altering events, but a lack on continuity. I tried, I really tried to follow it, but the only major hurdle crossed was death, and it wasn't all that interesting after he came back.
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Old September 14th, 2001, 11:46 PM   #16
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A well constructed character in any vein comic, movie, or otherwise will have weaknesses but it is unfair to say Supes lacks because his weaknesses are not centralized around his powers. By having his weakness being his 'mind' as you put it, he is actually more like us than some other heroes. A weakness is a weakness. It's almost funny how you criticize Supes for being too powerful and at the same time having a weakness that is so human...
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Old September 14th, 2001, 11:48 PM   #17
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When I said his mind, I didn't mean psychic or something of that nature. I meant he's an idiot. He often bashes his way into a situation, which gets him into trouble more times than not.
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Old September 14th, 2001, 11:59 PM   #18
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In fairness, that same thing can be said about any hero. Bashing your way into a situation and getting into more trouble for it more times than not is a comic formula. Superman didn't invent it nor does he particularly do it best. If that's your main criticizm, I dare say there isn't a character existing who doesn't fall prey. Hell, that's the main plot to any good detective story.
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Old September 15th, 2001, 12:06 AM   #19
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Everyone does that, yes, but that's Superman's opening to everything. It never changes. He charges headfirst into EVERYTHING. Always driven near the point of exhaustion before battling back...

If I wanted writing that repetitive and bad, I'd watch Dragonball Z...

Every step in character evolution he takes, he steps back to the old ways all over again. His death, returned. His new abilities, reset. His replacements, replaced.

He's a character with zero growth from 1960.
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Old September 15th, 2001, 12:09 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Guardian Of Paradise
Everyone does that, yes, but that's Superman's opening to everything. It never changes. He charges headfirst into EVERYTHING. Always driven near the point of exhaustion before battling back...

If I wanted writing that repetitive and bad, I'd watch Dragonball Z...

Every step in character evolution he takes, he steps back to the old ways all over again. His death, returned. His new abilities, reset. His replacements, replaced.

He's a character with zero growth from 1960.
And you have all the issues from 1960 i trust?
I have only read Supse on and off for the last 10 years and i have noticed plenty of growth.

His marrage bring the largest yet.
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Old September 15th, 2001, 12:16 AM   #21
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The wonders of digital technology and an uncle that collectes Golden and Silver Age books... you get to flip through a lot. I haven't read Action Comics #10, but I've gone trough a myriad of books dating 1968 and on. Nothing new. The villians names have changed and that's about it.
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Old September 15th, 2001, 12:37 AM   #22
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As a collector of Superman for a number of years I can feel safe in saying you engage in generalization when you say that is his only response. Superman was often placed in situations where his strength was not the first thing he resorted to using nor was it always the way he ended a story. Superman resorts to force with the regularity that any other character in comics today uses force. That's just fact. In fact, since Supes usually uses his strength against inanimate objects that suggests at least a little more thought into the action and it's outcome than, say, a cannonball special from Wolvie and Colossus. Plus, he never uses more strength than necessary in any situation which demonstrates control. I would like to suggest that maybe you are speaking more from a "I don't like Superman" POV than actual knowledge of the character, but I could wrong
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Old September 15th, 2001, 12:44 AM   #23
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I'm afraid you are wrong.
The most recent, and one of the last Superman books I bought was when Superman, newly transformed into his energy persona, took on the revived Metallo, who had taken over an aircraft carrier. During the fight, he continuously tried to punch and whack away at Metallo's growing power, not taking into account that his powers OBVIOUSLY didn't work that way anymore.
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Old September 15th, 2001, 01:28 AM   #24
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Superman did not have control over his power then and, more to the point, those aren't really his powers. So judging him on the use of his powers at a time when they were new to him is unfair. How would you react if everything you are capable of doing now produced a drastically different effect than you expected. Imagine putting on roller skates for the first time. If Superman had come out using his powers at thier full potential practically his first time out, that would have been ridiculous.
To say that Superman should have been at master of his new powers from the beginning that would be pretty much asking for bad storytelling.

Oh BTW were you saying I was wrong in that I say you were generalizing?
If you were, I think you may want to reconsider...
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Old September 15th, 2001, 02:24 AM   #25
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Uh... dudes...

may I point out that to a large part this character is aimed for much younger readers. You guys are kinda on the old side for reading comics.

Not to knock you down. I still enjoy a good comic (when I can find that rare one that is really well done.) But Superman plots needs to be understood by a ten year old.

And then they have to be mass produced on a monthly deadline. And the pay isn't that great no more.
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Old September 15th, 2001, 01:19 PM   #26
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Umm... I see what GOP means by "lack of growth" and 19th's "growth of character" agruments.

GOP means a lack of personal growth, which I can understand and which doesn't appear to have changed overly much to really glare as "character growth". This is easly seeable to the collecter who sees that "growth". While the irregular read won't see "growth", but more of a "raising" of the comics maturity level with Supes "marrage" and various other things. [[Like the current "war-trama" Supes has.]]

Tom, very few 10 years olds would want to read comics, let alone low-violence ones like Supes! Also they haven't been 'aimed' at younger people for several years now. But I totally agree with the monthly deadline thing and pay involved.

chrono

BTW 19th, good points about comics being reflective of it's society. I've read that else where and it quite true.
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Old September 15th, 2001, 02:39 PM   #27
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19, you keep making odd assumptions about my thought processes that aren't there.

I didn't say Supes new powers would/should/could be mastered on the first try. But when you're a muscle bound mass turned into a living super-conductor, you can't attack anything the same way. A few nano-seconds of thought would tell you, "I'm different, so the old way probably won't work."

Besides, which, the strength, flight, invulnerability aren't his powers either. According to DC, Supes powers come, in fact, from high level mental abilities. All that invulnerability comes from a psionic shield, which explains why the cape and costume, made on Earth, takes as much punishment as he does.
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Old September 15th, 2001, 04:06 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by thomas7g
Uh... dudes...

may I point out that to a large part this character is aimed for much younger readers. You guys are kinda on the old side for reading comics.
This coming from an anime fan
Those cute little cartoons like pokemon and sailor moon.


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Old September 15th, 2001, 04:43 PM   #29
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What? I am an anime fan. You haven't seen a great story until you've watched the unedited version of Cowboy Bebop.
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Old September 15th, 2001, 07:37 PM   #30
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I am an anime fan from way back too (when u brought your vcr and some coax cables to trade the latest anime)

The point i was making is that to tell comic fans that they are engaging in a childish pastime is like throwing stones in a glass house when you are a fan of a genera that is similarly characterised as a childish persuit.
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